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Grab a snack and a few beers… we have a story to tell, and it’s probably going to take some time. It all started yesterday evening when several people took notice of a new Flash Portal site called LordBling.com. At first glance the site looked a bit familiar, with stunning graphics and a layout that was easy to navigate. It had a bunch of great flash content with a seemingly large community. The only problem was, the group of people that took notice were members of the Newgrounds.com community, and what they saw was not just a blatant ripoff of the community they loved, but a meticulous near-copy, right down to descriptive phrases and ‘user submitted’ comments. The flash content, too, seemed to be copied, instantly branding this site as a content thief in the eyes of those who have supported flash artists for the past several years. Unfortunately, while many newgrounds users are commendable people, and are very supportive of each other, many are also lacking a bit in the maturity department. Rather than simply sending emails of protest to the site’s creator, it quickly spiraled into an all out flame-war and spam-fest. In a very short period of time, LordBling.com was full of hateful remarks and the site’s administrators had no chance to keep up. It was then that the owner of LordBling.com decided to ‘voluntarily’ shut the site down. But who were the mysterious owners of the site, and why did this site make the Newgrounds community so angry when there are so many other flash portal sites around that get no heat at all?  Redheaded kids as mascots…coincidence?
Ah yes, now the story gets interesting. I almost don’t even know where to begin, but let’s start by painting a picture so you can begin to understand why the Newgrounds community was so angry to begin with. (The images were pulled from Google’s spider cache so I apologize for the broken images that appear in the screenshots.)  First off, the site navigation and logo headers: aside from NG having a few more links to visit, it’s pretty hard to say there’s a lot of differences.
Next up is the actual front-page….
The submission details page didn’t cache too well, but take a look at some close-ups of the text content:
Comments were copied word for word, but in the interest of fairness the artist MIGHT have submitted this game and just copied and pasted the text. Then again, maybe not.
Here’s a shot of the portal entry lists…. the close-up made me chuckle, but it could just indicate this site wasn’t finished quite yet.
As you can see, there is very little doubt that LordBling.com borrowed heavily from the proven design and functionality model created by Newgrounds. Now this isn’t exactly a crime. As a matter of fact, it happens all the time, but usually copycat sites provide their own content. Unlike other copycat sites, this one obviously took a lot of time, and a lot of money to get off the ground. This wasn’t something developed by some teenager as a hobby, this was being built to directly compete against Newgrounds, and would use their own content against them. The most shocking clue would be the first… the whois record on the domain name:  No… it couldn’t be anyone from Armor Games… could it? It seemed very unlikely, since Armor Games has been a long standing affiliate of Newgrounds. Tom Fulp, owner and creator of Newgrounds, regularly posts front page promotions for contests held by Armor Games, and Armor Games has a great history of getting sponsorships for the hard working game designers in the Newgrounds community. It seemed like, if anything, AG had always had NG’s best interest in mind, but I couldn’t help but think back a few years to a time when ArmorGames was known as Games Of Gondor. GoG started out as one of those sites run by a gaming fan who would grab any flash game he could get and put it on his site, with or without the author’s permission. Sites like this are widely known as content thieves, but unlike most sites, when GoG started making money, they opted to make changes, eventually evolving into Armor Games, who would not only get permission for flash games, but pay to sponsor them as well. After the change from GoG, Armor Games seemed to be pretty legit. They had a solid business model, paying a few hundred dollars to developers to drop in a bunch of AG branding and links. The payoff being that once the games were completed, AG would mass distribute the games, which would continue to be passed around virally. With AG branding being displayed on 100’s of sites and kicking back millions of users to their ad-driven website, AG’s initial investments would likely turn out to have a huge profit margin. Armor Games also adopted their own version of Mochibot, in order to further the amount of branding they could get into sponsored games, and started getting developers to use Armorbot for their scoreboards, rather then allowing the author’s to use scoreboards on their own sites. Most developers didn’t care… they were getting money and didn’t mind the loss of potential site traffic (and site worth). Now it started looking like maybe AG’s intentions weren’t as honorable as they would like to claim. The pieces started falling in place. But still…. to try and take on the site that helped catapult their success seemed surreal. A simple google on the term ‘lordbling.com’ would yield even more interesting results. In the top results, was sosfactory.com, a design site that offers several services including mascot design. The designs on the portfolio are all amazing and very creative, and amongst them was the design for Lord Bling himself. A redheaded kid who could be said to bear some similarities to Newground’s mascot, Pico. THE CHALLENGE Some months ago We was contacted by guys at Lordbling.com to do a mascot design to brand his website. This is a hughe site plenty of sections: games, videos, animations, forums where every user is able to submit content… so Daniel thought was a good idea having his character customized for every section: ‘The Lord Bling mascot gives life to an otherwise dull web experience. Unless their is some character or mascot the users can relate to, the return percentage for visitors falls well below the 15% mark. Major sport teams have mascots who support the players on the field. In the same way the mascots created for Lord Bling support and enhance the experience a user will have when visiting LordBling.com. Sergio and his team has not only meet expectations, but far exceeded what I had hoped for. I highly recommend them for all your graphical and mascot needs. Sincerely, Daniel McNeely is better known to most people as the creator and ceo of Armor Games. Suddenly the immature tactics of the Newgrounds users started to seem a bit justified. But all this had only taken place over the course of a few hours, so in spite the large group of people that took a stand against LordBling, the majority of the Newgrounds community remains oblivious. Normally that wouldn’t be the case (by now most of the regular users would have seen lordbling.com and come to their own conclusions), but the cover-up that would follow is almost as conspicuous as the motive for launching the site in the first place. As I write this article, lordbling.com is no longer online. The whois record has been hidden, and the Lord Bling concept art has been pulled from sosfactory.com. The only evidence remaining are screenshots taken by various members of the Newgrounds community (whom I’d like to thank for sending said images to me), and a deviant art page belonging to the artist from sosfactory.com with the Lord Bling concept work. Why would anyone put so much effort into covering up the existence of a web site, and any ties of it’s existence to Armor Games? One can deduce a few theories if they stop and think about it. If Armor Games was in the pockets of enough talent, they could essentially start any site they wanted and have the support of those artists from day one. With content being easily attainable, it wouldn’t be hard to clone the site that initially referred the vast majority of AG’s startup traffic, and start getting it some exclusive content that Newgrounds would not have. Maybe throw some more money at people to buy their loyalty, with the intent of syphoning casual traffic to LordBling and ultimately taking Newground’s spot as the #1 choice for flash authors to showcase their work. We may never know what they were thinking, and we may still see LordBling rise again after the heat dies down. All I know is that I will not likely be a supporter of LordBling, nor do I have any intention of supporting Armor Games in any way. If you are like me, and you owe your entire career as a flash developer to the exposure that was given to you by newgrounds, here’s something I want you to think about when you go looking for a sponsorship on your next game. Is $500 worth sending the majority of your game’s traffic kickbacks to a site that will make at least 10x as much in ad revenue, and would use that money to ultimately hurt the site that gave you your first break? Are you aware that you can easily distribute your own work around the web, and get 100% of the link-backs to your own web site? Are you aware that in a year, you can make WAY more than $500 from exposure to one google ad, from a single game? Can your loyalty be bought? Edit: in regards to the conspiracy theory comment here’s an image to back up my retort
Followup: Bookmark this page on Digg, Kinja, FURL, Redit & other sites 73 ResponsesLeave a Comment
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February 9th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
FUCK AG NG FO” LIFE
February 9th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Inglor was bought.
February 9th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
King of Parody is right :[
February 9th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
What the hell is a Dinotron?
February 9th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
wow. this really makes me mad. i’ve been going to newgrounds as long as i can remember, and i CAN”T believe that AG would screw over newgrounds like that. i’m officially boycotting AG. and i think we all should.
February 9th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
I have an alternate theory;
If you take a look at the letter that was supposedly written by “Dan McNeely” of ArmorGames, you’ll notice that it is written much in the same way as the comment on SOSFactory’s front page; broken English and grammatical errors. Obviously not typed by a person who is meticulously writing a statement for a company’s front webpage.
Not only that, but I have my doubts as to whether or not McNeely would flat-out issue his name in regards to LordBling.com, when he’s already well known by a vast community of flash programmers who would instantly recognize him. I don’t think anyone could be that careless.
I could go on and on, but there’s at least one theory that could summarize all this - ArmorGames somehow pissed off a group of people, probably those who run SOSFactory…and that group, in return, is trying to bring ArmorGames negative attention by promoting this “LordBling” site, and confusing the public into believing that AG is trying to overtake Newgrounds. Whether or not they’re trying to severe the connection between ArmorGames and Newgrounds, I can’t say.
CONSPIRACY THEORY! =O
February 9th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
That’s pretty far out there. I don’t see how making a fake testimonial is in any way going to hurt armor games.
If your theory is based on the idea that the testimonial is the only link between LordBling and AG, keep in mind the whois record clearly shows the registration e-mail.
In addition to that LordBling was in the affiliate links on AG last night, and as of the time I wrote this post, there was still a link to it in the ‘more games area’.
I think a lot of the things Dan has done for the flash community are great… just like the great things Bill Gates did for the computer industry. Of course he also stabbed his buddy Steve Jobs in the back and almost destroying Apple in the process.
February 9th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
you TELL EM FISH, FUCK DAT BITCH
February 9th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Dang.
February 9th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
I saw this coming along time ago. I thought it was pretty lame that people would take money to slap an ugly Armogames logo all over their Flash and then have the balls to submit it to Newgrounds. Didn’t they know this would eventually hurt the site that was helping give them exposure? This was a low blow by Armorgames and I will no longer respect any Flash artists who takes money from them and includes their logo in their Flash. I say vote 0 on any Flash that promotes Armor Games!
February 9th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
This is all Inglors fault! He’s been slithering all around Newgrounds doing Dan’s bidding! He should be banned from the site! He is a cancer on Newgrounds.
February 9th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
‘This was a low blow by Armorgames and I will no longer respect any Flash artists who takes money from them and includes their logo in their Flash.’
There’s no need to punish the very artists that are trying to be discovered. The webmaster is who is to blame, not the people trying to get their work out there.
February 9th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Lord Bling is a f***ing ripoff
NewGround’s is the greatest, and as a flash artist i say dismantle lord bling its like a kick in the shins to newgrounds
February 9th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Wow, go figure. You show someone respect and they bite you in the ass. Just as I was starting to warm up to their overwhelming presence on the Newgrounds Portal, this goes down.
February 9th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
I never, ever trusted Armor Games. They’re so bullshit.
February 9th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
rock on man im gla dfi got to see this
cause i USEd to like stoping by AG every once in a while…but no more
fuck that shit hole
February 9th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
hmm could be conspiracy but i say we newgrounders take it in a legal way not sending 0s to an artist with armor games on it. besides armor games doesnt put out that good of stuff anyway, I’d rather wait for gamma bros. 2 or a new toof before playing stuff like that game where you play a dude who shoots squirt guns but thats just me
long live newgrounds we
February 9th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
It’s funny that you mention Mochibot because isn’t Armorbot just a direct rip off of that also? They could have at least been a little more creative with the naming of the product. Not to mention that Armorbot is complete crap compared to Mochibot.
My point is that there’s a history of this intolerable sort of behavior and the community really needs to shun those who seek to deceive us.
GO NEWGROUNDS!!
February 9th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
With regards to Newgrounds4life’s comments, and your own, about ’selling out your skills’, I can thanks NG, but ALSO AG, for helping me get my current, and well-paid, job as a Flash Developer. GoG/AG was the FIRST site to actually support the Flash artist by offering money in return for a button or two. Before that, everybody simply stole content, with no credit to the author. Since AG began the trend, many other websites have followed suit - and yes, you are probably correct in saying that aan actionscripter could make more if they could be bothered publicising, but most of us can’t (be bothered). Game makers/coders in particular are NOT sales people. We submit so that people can appreciate our craft - if someone is going to offer us money for that, then hurrah, even if we could make more money elsewhere.
If LordBling was actually started by Dan McNeely, I believe it was an error of judgement on his part, and one which he quickly retracted as soon as he realised he was out of line.
I also think your report is extremely biased, particularly in your interpretation of why LordBling was created, and also why it was taken down.
February 9th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Boycott Armorgames and anyone who associates with them!
February 9th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Extremely disappointing. I urge people to not be immature and punish the artists who are caught in this mess. And to any aspiring creative folks I urge to think about their work and see the real worth in their labor. Fresh flash branded content is a GOLDMINE, take it from someone professionally in the design/art scene. Dont fuck with sites that arent going to appreciate YOUR works personality and VALUE.
I’ve been a die-hard newgrounds fan/contributor and will always be one because it is a place that WANTS me to grow. Its a site that runs on honesty and good faith and not marketting and self promotion.
February 9th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
I like how Denvish calls out Fish on being biased and claims he is himself is being unbiased knowing full well he cant be will AG greases his buns on regularly.
FIsh has came to his conclusions based on PAST activites from Dan and previous sites. SO please spare yourself. and AG didnt begin a trend they simply stole it from NG and publisized it quicker. Tom has been sponsoring flash artist since 2001 and was working on a sponsorship system that he inavertingly shared with your buttbuddies. so spare us.. you know shit.;
February 9th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
firstly to Denvish: I’ll be the first to admit the actions taken by AG to start paying authors for their work helped shape the way for tons of other promoters that now do the same. And as one of the oldest (I mean long term, not age… but I guess that applies too <3) contributers to AG, they have certainly helped you out a lot. I have no doubt that without their contributions to your development, you may not have the notoriety you do now, and I’m personally glad things worked out for you.
I’m just trying to look at the motives from a business standpoint, as a person who can be assed to deal with promotion and brand development. The only reason you invest time and money into a large commercial site is to make a profit. It’s no secret the amount of money that gets paid in sponsorships on AG is massively multiplied, and the only way to make even more money is to control the primary source(s) of where people showcase their work.
I’m not condemning Armor Games… and I am not condemning people who do what they need to do to make a living. All I’m asking is that people think about the implications of this move, and what their support of AG could mean in the future.
Maybe Dan made an honest mistake… but so you think he’s that stupid? I’ve always respected him and thought he was rather brilliant… hell I still do. I probably wouldn’t have even been so upset except that there was such a coverup about the site in general. If it was a simple lapse in judgment, why sweep it under the rug?
Now… with all that has been said, I want to reply to Luis’s comments as well.
I am a hardcore NG loyalist. As you can tell from this article, I will defend NG with every breath I have. But the reason I believe in NG so much is that it is an amazing place to showcase your work and your skills. If i see a great game with an AG icon in it, I will vote 5. I will probably review it in this very magazine. Promoting that author and their work will continue to be something I consider a priviledge, and I will do so on the merit of their work.
NG is not about segregating people because they have a certain logo in their games. Will I support AG? no. Will I stop supporting talented artists? Never!
If you truly do believe in what makes NG great, I would expect you all to do the same, otherwise you will be hurting NG just as much as anyone else ever could have.
February 9th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
Everyone seems to have an opinion about what happened. The truth of the matter was ‘LordBling’ was created to support Artist, Writers and Newgrounds.
The idea was to create a site that added a fresh face to parody and animation. (Hence the ‘King of Parody’ slogan) I wanted to encourage writers and animators to come up with their own ‘Bling’ creation, (See ‘Lord of the Bling’ in the Newgrounds portal) This ‘Bling’ concept could be applied to anything and everying. (Saving Private Bling, Bling Wars, B is for Bling-detta, etc) I was then going to offer animators money to create these series for the site.
Any animation created for the site would be submitted to Newgrounds as the first place to show what the animator had created. In return, I would pay them for the work and help distribute their work around the web. I saw it as a ‘win-win’ situation.
When designing the site, I had a graphic artist custom design everything so that no one would say I copied anything. The ‘Lord Bling’ character was suppose to have a ‘young, kingly’ look to him, and for reference I provided my graphic artist a link to the guy from the Fall Out series. (http://www.webgamemagazine.com/2007/02/09/the-life-and-death-of-lordbling-and-the-cover-up-that-followed/#more-282)
Not Pico Related @ All.
The template was choosen from ‘TemplateMonster.com’ and the layout was based around sites like CrazyMonkeyGames, Newgrounds, FlashPortal, Hallpass, ArmorGames, etc. It was a combination of things I liked from all of these properties. (Again it was never intended to emulate, steal, or undermine what Newgrounds has done or created)
After going into the beta test period, it was quickly noted by a few as a rip off of Newgrounds, which was quite upsetting to me because of the level of respect I have for Tom Fulp and the support he has given to me over the years. I then decided to pull down the site, and have the graphic artist remove the logos since people thought it was copy right infringement.
The current content on the site was from places that distribute their work freely (CrazyMonkeygames, ArmorGames, etc) and the few animations listed on the site were from talented artist that I had already worked with, and I had them listed as the author in the ‘Comments’ section of the site.
In no way was it meant to emulate Newgrounds. It’s purpose was to support animators and writers and help them get paid for the hard work that they submit freely everyday to Newgrounds.
February 9th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Well then, unlike many of the comments here I am unbiased so I owe no loyalty to Newgrounds, Armor games or any affiliations.
My honest opinion, it is all speculation at the current moment. If this McNeely character gives his two cents in, then we can only make accusations. Armor Games and Newgrounds have both been good to flash artists. Armor Games, the site itself, has been the benchmark for the flash gaming community. With the developments of this contreversy so early and little in detail it is far to early to boycott Armor Games and act childish.
This is a serious matter, unless we know both the motive and the intentions of LordBling.com we cannot keep speculating over this matter.
Sure there was copyright imfringement, sure it was a bonehead move on his part, but perhaps there was a legitimate reason to the website’s purpose. We can look at it from all angles, but we cannot have a definite answer until we get more in depth information.
If you choose to boycott Armor Games, fine it’s your choice. But truly think before you make rash decisions as there is two sides to this story.
February 9th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
I love how you say..”Sure there was copyright infringement”.. Like Pffffffttt doesnt everyone do it?
hahah say he did an illegal act abut yet theres a legitimate reason? hahah.
February 10th, 2007 at 3:24 am
To PG: I’m sure you know how much NG means to me. It was the site that first got me into making games. However, both Inglor and Dan (as well as being former employers) are friends, in the same way that Tom is. I respect Inglor for his AS skills (see AS: Main), and in my dealings with Dan he’s always been fair and polite, which makes me doubt whether he would knowingly rip NG or Flash artists off, when he doesn’t have to.
To Mindchamber: dude, you’re an asshat. At least PG came back with some sensible and logical answers. All you’re doing is slinging accusations and stirring up shit. As for being biased - I’m sorry, who is it you work for again? Wouldn’t be NG, by any chance, would it? Oh, what a surprise.
Also, I’m not sure where you read that I was claiming to be unbiased. I didn’t make that claim. However, for your information, I haven’t recieved any payments from AG, and I haven’t spoken to Dan, for over 10 months. I get no benefit from defending these guys, but unlike yourself, I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt, rather than demonize them. And if you doubt my dedication to NG, then you don’t know me.
February 10th, 2007 at 10:26 am
Denvish.. asshole. He made an NG SITE rippoff!! what fucking more proof do you need? Im being obnoxious, because there isnt any point to trying to come up with “reasonable facts” its all there ya faggot.
February 10th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
First off, thank you to Psycho Goldfish for providing the only valid documentation on this situation… That thread on NG was a huge disaster, so this really helps.
I’ve spoken to Dan on many occasions, including yesterday. He has always been REALLY nice to me. I even said to him at one point when I heard about all of this, I simply couldn’t believe it was true.
Now, I know Dan’s side of the story first hand, but here’s the problem. Whether this whole thing was really what he says it is, an attempt to help Flash authors and Newgrounds, or an attempt to compete directly with Newgrounds, the bottom line is it LOOKS like an attempt to compete directly with Newgrounds for the outside looking in.
I think Dan needs to understand how it looks from the outside no matter what his intentions were. I think Denvish said the smartest thing. It seems like a screw up in judgment on Dan’s part. The only problem? DENVISH said that, and I think the Flash community needs to hear DAN say that.
MindChamber. I agree with most of the things you say, but I disagree 100% on how you say them, and most of the stuff you include in your arguments makes them sound weak and almost makes them useless.
Anyway, I think the bottom line is this: The only way this situation between ArmorGames and Newgrounds is going to turn out good is if we start hearing the TRUTH, and only the truth.
February 10th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Considering all that Dan and AG have done for Flash artists and for Newgrounds, you’d think that the least we could do is wait for the full story without jumping to conclusions.
And before you start being an idiot and suggesting boycotting or anything, just ask yourself:
- Are Dan and co the people who built the site? As far as I’m aware, the person who made LB was hired by them, and that the site passed quality control on their side was, while almost certainly a stupid mistake, not indicative that anyone at AG set out to ‘rip off’ Newgrounds.
- Is it such a rip off? I mean, it looks incredibly incriminating as it stands, but most of the suggestion is down to the site’s colour scheme. If you replaced the orange and yellow with, say, blue and green, and the background with gray - maybe gave the kid dark hair or something - they you’d most likely end up with something which looked no more like a NG rip off than any number or other portal sites out there.
- Is Dan an idiot? Looking at the site as it stands, is there any way anyone with half a brain could expect to get away with that UNLESS it was never intended as a clone of NG in the first place.
And please try to remember that NG is by no means a small site. It doesn’t need you to jump into the field and start spamming things up within a few hours of a story about which you only one side, and not well formed at that, of the story.
February 10th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
To Mindchamber: You cant use the fact that he made a site similar to Newgrounds as 100% proof that he’s guilty. There have been hundreds of sites over the years similar to NG. Im not sure of the exact figures, but i think we all know Armor Games makes more than a few cents. Why would Dan risk his entire reputation on trying to rip of NG and be so careless in the process?
My opinion on the matter is that Dan really was trying to support Newgrounds and its contributers. They took insperation from NG, thats all.
In response to the “Death to AG” posts, anyone that votes 0 on flashes sponsored by AG is an idiot. Regardless of what you beleive, its not the authors fault now is it?
February 10th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
in response to Paranoia, your comments are all fair and I even agree to an extent, however you have to understand my reasonings for writing this story so quickly.
You see, the fact that the site existed was one issue and it’s currently the focus for debate, however, they not only deleted the site but tried to hide all links to AG. That type of response usually means there is going to be small chance of public awareness, and smaller chance of public statements from anyone.
After everyone calmed down, we finally did hear from Dan, and I think that’s what a lot of AG supporters deserved. Was his reply satisfying? Not really, but it’s more that you would have gotten without this story.
I feel since the publication of the story, I’ve been pretty fair, having listened to both sides, giving Dan’s statement the promenance it deserves, chatting with Inglor, etc.
I also understand how it can be hard to accept that a person you like and respect can really screw up.
I also agree that NG is a big site and can stand on it’s own… but that statement just demonstrates that there are people who would trust in AG and make the jump to the competing site. Not that I think competition is a bad thing at all, but when it comes form someone you trust without warning, it certainly turns your world around.
February 10th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
DFox .. Ive spoken to dan before. hes a smooth talker.. hes the type of guy that could shoot your mother in the face and then turn around and convince you that you did it. and even make you apologize. I dont need to say much here other than. Hes done this before. Armorgames was a rippoff site before he got his act together. if it wasn’t for Ignlor he wouldve been another mofunzone. but hes been holding himself back.. only this time he jumped the trigger.. he wants to replace NG so bad that even I can taste it.. he’ll be back with another portal site you’ll see.
and for the record… since everyone “acts” like they know dan. they don’t. hes tried to take down NG from the inside many times before. and even has solicitated each and everyone of us at a separate occasion. now.. then… does that sounds like someone that is trying to support newgrounds to you?
February 10th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
OK, MindChamber, here’s the thing.
You’re saying all of this, but then you go on Newgrounds, and NG and ArmorGames are all buddy-buddy.
You stated that you’ve know this for a long time. Now, you are a Newgrounds employee. You have DIRECT access to TOM FULP. Does Tom simply not believe what you say, or is there a reason you haven’t told him, or does he just keep this tie for business? You need to provide SOME explanation of why Tom still endorses ArmorGames yet YOU are aware of all of this corruption.
It just doesn’t add up. I think we need to start hearing where Tom stands on all of this in order for everything to start making sense, because right now it isn’t making much sense at all.
February 10th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Thats actually one the most sensible thing i’ve heard so far by DFox.
Where the hell does Tom stand in all of this ?
February 10th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
while I can’t speak for Tom, I can speculate that his primary concerns are the well-being of the NG community and the promotion of it’s contributers. Even if AG has an agenda against NG, it’s not the artist’s fault, and if I know Tom… his continued support of them will never change.
That said… put yourself in his shoes…. what would you do if making a comment could potentially cause a rift between NG and people who happen to get AG sponsorships?
Yeah, Tom’s the only one who can say for sure…. but quite frankly, he didn’t do anything, so he shouldn’t HAVE to say anything.
And Mindchamber does have access to information the public doesn’t have. And I know him well… if he’s reserving comments, you can believe there’s a damn good reason.
What it’s going to come down to is the community… how will we conduct ourselves? I don’t see that attacking AG solves anything, but I certainly won’t be turning my back anytime soon.
February 10th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Tom thinks about the “greater Good”
I just like to walk around and point “asshole”..
I may be a Justice whore, but Toms even more noble than I am.
February 10th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
OK guys, here’s the problem.
At this point, it seems like Tom not making a formal announcement or something is a disservice to the NG community.
Why? Because we’re all getting so many mixed messages it’s hard to see what’s going on.
MindChamber basically says Dan is in this for all the wrong reasons, don’t do business with him, and he’s not a good person.
jmtb02 says Dan was in no way trying to steal Newgrounds.
Luis says he would never respect anyone who gets a sponsorship with AG again.
Denvish says it was a lapse in Dan’s judgment, and he’s really a good person.
Psycho Goldfish says you should “think” about working with ArmorGamres in the future.
Do you all see the dilemma here?
This is why it needs to be settled by Tom because otherwise this thing is going to have a negative affect on the NG community. I mean I already see mods cursing each other out, fighting, it’s really sad.
February 10th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
haha man, Someone tells you you have a good idea so you run with it DFox.
Tom promoted AG’s contest. and Gave them spotlight, they are not in business together in anyway.. why da fuck does Tom owe you an explanation? for.. anything? Its not like he made an AG site ripoff and then took it down really quick,becuase he upsetted the AG community.. What I did exposing Dans site was something I did on my own, and has nothing to Do with Tom really.Ive done it before. with other sites. Like mofunzone and crapville. The fact that you are trying to shift the blam on to Tom is ridiculous.
February 10th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Down with AG!
February 10th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. You can’t possibly shift the blame to Tom. I’m saying that I think Tom is so amazing that with one post he can probably clean up for the mess you and Dan created here as impossible as it may sound.
The reason I say Tom, is because look at what it’s done on Newgrounds, to a lot of the important people in the NG community.
So look, right now, this thing is so messed up and blown up.
It’s pretty damn sad this had to happen :/
February 10th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
My theory is that this years April fools joke just got ruined.
February 10th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Fuck you DFox.. I didnt do anything other than look out for the interest of flash creators. the only one that needs to clear anything up is Dan.. HE’s the one that did the disservice. get your facts right.
and how da fuc can Tom clear ANYTHING UP? Can he fucking read minds? How da fuc would Tom know why Dan tried to emulate NG?
its like you are some dumbass lawyer thats demanding answers from a stab victim as to why she was mugged…. seriously wtf. ask Dan these fuckin questions as he clearly didnt answer shit…
back to GOW for .. too many dipshits in here.
February 10th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
Hi guys, Im S.o.S from SoSfactory.
The true is Lordbling spent XXXXUS$ in custom designs… I have no idea what is happening, but its not coherent.
Anyway we are not reponsible of anything but the good original artwork we did… a great logo and a great Mascot design for a great costumer, I would do it again.
Btw: Im the resposible of the “BROKEN ENGLISH”. All what you see in the site (just 10% of my real portfolio) + my “BROKEN ENGLISH” was learnt in the last 2 years.
Wait to see my German
February 10th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
You know what. AG came around less than 2 years ago.
NG has been online for almost 10.
Tom has made dozens and dozens of groundbreaking games.
Daniel Mcneely has made jack shit.
Daniel Mcneely likely has more spending money than Tom by ratio.
I never wanted to sling mud until now but I definetly saw this coming.
February 10th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
I’ve said this before in another thread but ill say it here for the masses… it really pisses me off how people are trying to play this into a small ‘boo-boo’ … hell naw… newgrounds shared its successes and hardcore following with ag/Dan and wether you like it or not Dan abused it by creating that bullshit site. I know its really hard to fathom and its easier to stick up for your man… but lets look at the plain facts and accept it for what it is… an abuse of trust and an unspoken business relationship.. and frankly i dont see why Dan shouldnt pay the consequences of his ‘boo-boo’…. in a perfect world it would all blow over and we could all blow each other off and be happy again but lets be realistic and realize that some mistakes forever taint the taste in ones mouth.. i for one will pull all my games with any sort of ag branding and wont even think about doing anything affiliated with them.. Why should I… is it worth 500 dollars for someone to completely rip the site that put me on the map… probably not id rather stay broke.
February 10th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
Good article. I wonder what would have happened if AG didn’t taken down their NG website. There are still a good number of content stealing flash websites out there, flashring.com and gorillamask.net to name a few.
February 10th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Lokken I LOVE YOUR WORK!!!
had to lighten the mood.
February 10th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
haha tpm, great to see sense of humour applied in an e-crisis.
February 10th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
I agree Lokken, except the two major issues.. One, none of the sites you mention attempted to rip off NG directly in content look and style. and TWO none of the site you mentioned were personally supported by NG.
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February 11th, 2007 at 7:26 am
At first, Dan wanted me to create the mascot and he didn’t say “Do it like Pico” in any way. But after I noticed mine looked like turd, I stopped working on it.
Also, in the beginning, LodBling didn’t look like NG that much. Pretty sad if you look at what it has become.
I think, it wouldn’t be that bad if someone else would’ve created a ripoff, but someone who has been supported by NG…
February 11th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Well, I’ve never been sponsored yet (Although had the offers, just don’t have a paypal account). And this article and incident has made me think that I shouldn’t get sponsored, nor should I support Armour Games. Newgrounds has built me up as an independant flash author, to copy it or rather make competition to it, that doesn’t actually offer anything different is stupid. Because your bound to have the backlash from the newgrounds community, were loyalists apparently.
February 11th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
Now that the websites down it just needs to be left. I mean what more can the communities of both websites do to come to a comfortable reason why it was made.
Neither side is going to back down in the argument so just leave it now.
Its the developers choice to use Armour Games in the future and its also their choice whether they feel comfortable working with them.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
While I think what Dan did was pretty creepy, I’d just like to say that the NG community is generally pretty fucked up. Sure, it’s nice that people are somewhat loyal to NG, in my eyes it’s definately the best flash site there is, and without it, I wouldn’t be where I am today. But people who are hating on the competition need to get real. Tom is making a lot of money and there is nothing wrong with (the principle of) somebody else doing something slightly similiar. Free fucking market economy! But yeah, what Dan did was sneaky and down right BAD. but I think psycho fish is unfair when he downplays what Dan has done for the flash game developing community. Sure, everybody COULD theoretically PERHAPS make more than $500 bucks on their games but that requires a homepage, and if you want a scoreboard, you have to code one yourself, and if you want to distribute it over the net, you have to do so manually. Many people, including myself (although I have never been sponsored by AG) would prefer just getting the $500. otherwise we’d just put it up on NG, like everybody used to in the olden days, and get NOTHING.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
I’m not really downplaying what Dan has done for anyone. All I’m asking is that people think about what they are worth. If you make a game and 90% of the branding is going to link elsewhere, do most flash authors know there are people willing to buy the liscence for the game straight up for a lot more money than a typical sponsorship?
If you are happy with a $500 sponsorship, and are aware of your other options, that’s cool… it’s ultimately your choice. I just hope people who are working hard in this industry are aware of other options.
Also… I think the flash community has done just as muc (if not more) for Dan, than Dan has for the community. Dan hasn’t made anyone rich… but thanks to the flash community, Dan is on top of the world.
So when the very same flash community that put him up is suddenly put in the situation created by this whole fiasco, some of us find it harder to swallow than others.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
“there are people willing to buy the liscence for the game straight up for a lot more money than a typical sponsorship?”
huh, shame on me, no! Except for miniclip.com, what other sites do?
Very valid points, yes.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:21 am
Armorgames also buys licenses, 2dplay.com, crazymonkeygames, and many more do that as well, the only bad thing is that NOBODY will know that you did the game.
February 13th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
I’m not surprised. ArmorGames are deceitful criminals and they are simply using poor Tom.
If anyone wants a fair company that pays high for sponsorships, I suggest the following sites:
MoFunZone.com
2Dplay.com
ArcadeTown.com
RustyGames.com
STAY FAR AWAY FROM ARMORGAMES!
February 13th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
i think if you look at the bigger picture. AG’s is working towards total licensing ownership. Eventually the flash artist will lose all rights to what has been bought from them. (not sure how it goes with them right now) Then once ag’s gains enough power to sue ppl. It probally will.
Armorgames is biggg bizness now and when you add money to that you usually get someone aiming for complete power. >microsoft for instance
February 14th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
I’ve been suspicious of AG for quite some time, the whole ‘competition’ thing really turned my off.
Sure they pay the winners decently, but the amount of free advertising they get from hard working flash artists who don’t win is offensive and exploitative.
This is the final nail in the coffin as far as I’m concerned.
February 15th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
You’re all wrong! LordBling was supposed to be AG 2007 April Fools joke!
Damn you guys, now there’s no more April Fools joke
(a really expensive one, but if you have money you can do anything you fell like).
February 16th, 2007 at 9:42 am
lol, the april fool’s joke is a cool theory, Dan would have gotten out of a lot of trouble if he had just said that..
February 22nd, 2007 at 6:37 pm
This makes me cry sad, bitter tears.
March 4th, 2007 at 1:52 am
FUCK THIS SHIT. Mofunzone is using this to flame AG. And theres been to much fucking mudslinging already! I might not do any sponsorships now, from ANYBODY… I do my shit for me, and for the people who enjoy it. This back-and-forth is pissing the hell outta me…
March 31st, 2007 at 1:31 am
Great looking site so far!! I’m just starting to look around it but I love the title page! Visit my sites, please:
May 17th, 2007 at 9:25 am
I still like the idea of it being the april fool joke spoilt.
June 14th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
this is soooo funny.
also, weird note:
it says the webmaster lives in Irvine, California 92620.
I live in Irvine, California. And 92620 is my zip code.
…lol…
(nosrslyitwasntme)
July 12th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
I just read the whole article and 68 fucking comments, and here’s what I have to say.
I doubt AG didn’t notice LB looked like NG. It did, look at the pictures. It looked identical, same colors or not. It was a ripoff, and you can say what you want but in my opinion the picture is all the proof you need. It wasn’t an “OK the site is done! I’m done all the work, I’ll go relax on the NG BBS. Oh shit, I just noticed something, it looks the same! Woops!”
That being said, I’m not an expert on the subject but say they did want to rip off Newgrounds. What’s in it for them? All of the NG visitors wont flock to LB, they just wouldn’t. NG is the biggest, best, and everybody knows that. LB would get hits, but it would blow NG off the map in any sense. So how does that hurt NG? It doesn’t, because LordBling said himself that everything on LB would also be on Newgrounds, first!
“Any animation created for the site would be submitted to Newgrounds as the first place to show what the animator had created”
That’s an exact quote. So no, that doesn’t hurt Newgrounds - it helps NG even if the site was a ripoff of the layout. Who gives a shit if the layout was a ripoff, it helps NG and it helps itself. Win-win, thanks daniel!
November 12th, 2007 at 1:01 am
http://www.animationarchive.org/2007/04/theory-chaplins-shadow.html
When the Sun shines so bright on your creativity your bound to grow a few shadows
November 19th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
simple case of intentional product confusion. Its it illegal? not really, is it downright disgusting and disrespectful? Ohh yes.
Especially if your competition are the same people that put you were you are in the first place,
http://www.seriouseats.com/required_eating/2007/11/its-not-butterdeal-with-it.html
March 18th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
haha that butter link got me laughing MindChamber.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
[...] I want to thank Dan McNeely for providing the following response to our article, ‘The Life and Death of LordBling….‘. [...]